Episode 10: Breaking Down Behaviors of NPD with Dr. Les Carter

Today, the word “narcissist” is frequently thrown around and used within inappropriate contexts, such as a broad label for “toxic” individuals. How, then, do we differentiate between someone with unhealthy patterns and the manipulative behaviors of a person with NPD?  In this episode, Dr. Z talks with Dr. Les Carter, a clinical psychologist and founder of Surviving Narcissism, who provides deep insights into narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) including its specific cognitive processes and behaviors.  

 

The discussion highlights the critical differences between those who display narcissistic patterns due to upbringing and those with a true NPD, emphasizing that the latter rarely changes due to a lack of internal values and inability to self-reflect. However, despite the challenges of treating someone with narcissistic “traits,” Dr. Carter shares a rare success story of a family member who overcame their narcissistic tendencies through personal crisis and therapy.

 

Dr. Carter explains that while those with NPD often react defensively to being labeled, they do possess a level of awareness about their manipulative actions, often acting secretly and evasively. The episode also delves into the concept of “dark empathy,” where narcissists use their understanding of others’ emotions for manipulation rather than connection. Dr. Carter notes that true empathy is hard to cultivate in those with NPD, especially older individuals. 

 

Quotes

• “When they hear the word narcissist, it’s almost as though there’s a pathological fear that they have regarding that word. It’s like, ‘You’re not calling me that word, are you?’ And they just think of it as a dirty name, which tells you something already because if you’re being an objective person, then you would just say, ‘Why don't we talk about it? If you’re asking that question, I’d be more than happy to discuss it with you,’ which would be a very non-narcissistic way of responding. So the question is, do they know that they are being narcissistic? What they know is that you’re an idiot.” (02:57 | Dr. Les Carter) 
• “Narcissists do know that there’s something foul that they’re doing that offends other people, which is why they’re secretive, etc. But then the rationalization ingredient can become so powerful and so strong and so overwhelming that it overrides the truth.” (10:38 | Dr. Les Carter) 
• “You’re going to be able to tell most about an individual’s level of personal maturity by watching how they respond to conflict. And because healthy people can manage it... When you have somebody that’s on that extreme end of narcissistic personality and you bring this to their attention, they’re going to rationalize it. They’re not going to admit to anything. They’re not going to want to talk about any conflict. They’re not going to want to find a resolution unless the act of finding a resolution benefits them in some way.” (35:12 | Dr. Les Carter & Dr. Z)

 

Links

Sign Up for my LIVE Virtual Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

 

Connect with Dr. Les Carter:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SurvivingNarcissism/featured

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/survivingnarcissism101

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivingnarcissism101/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/SNarcissism101

 

Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

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