Next Up: Narcissism

Episode 33: Breaking the Cycle of Intergenerational Trauma and Abuse with Sasha Joseph Neulinger

“The trauma is always going to be a significant component of who you are,” says Sasha Joseph Neulinger, the founder of Voice For The Kids and co-founder of Step 1 Films. Joining Dr. Z in this episode, Sasha reflects on his journey from surviving years of sexual abuse to reclaiming his life with purpose and self-empowerment.
 
Sasha shares the pivotal role of his autobiographical documentary “Rewind,” which began as a deeply personal exploration of his childhood but became a beacon of hope for survivors of sexual abuse around the world. He discusses the challenges of breaking free from cycles of intergenerational trauma, the courage it takes to confront family dysfunction, and the sacrifices involved in setting boundaries.
 
How does one truly heal when the wounds of trauma run deep? Sasha and Dr. Z touch on the ongoing nature of healing, and discuss how intentional choices and consistent effort can lead to transformation. They tackle the complexities of self-love, navigating estrangement, and finding strength in creating a healthier future.
 
Sasha’s insights remind us that healing isn’t a straight path, but each step forward is a testament to resilience. This episode offers wisdom and inspiration for anyone seeking to heal from trauma and create a life rooted in authenticity and hope.
 
Quotes
“When we talk about the challenges of multi-generational trauma and multi-generational abuse, and why it’s so hard to break that cycle, it’s because the wound that wasn’t dealt with by the person who received it gets put behind their back.” (14:36 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)
“The trauma is always going to be a significant component of who you are. But to say, ‘Okay, it’s a part of my story, but it doesn’t define the trajectory of my life’—that’s an important distinction.” (27:00 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)
“​​Intention plus effort times consistency equals manifestation.” (35:31 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger) 
“Healing is not a destination; it’s a journey. You heal something inside of yourself, and it gives you the opportunity to see something else that you could put love towards.” (47:54 | Sasha Joseph Neulinger)
 
Links
Connect with Sasha Joseph Neulinger:
https://www.voiceforthekids.com/
https://www.rewinddocumentary.com/
Watch REWIND on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/movies/rewind/93564a65-dd03-34e2-a863-2fb0d15bd91b
Watch REWIND on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Rewind-Sasha-Joseph-Neulinger/dp/B086M33121
https://www.instagram.com/sjneulinger/
https://www.facebook.com/@SashaJNeulinger
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 32: Navigating the Holidays with a Narcissist

“Narcissists routinely love to ruin meaningful moments,” says Dr. Jaime Zuckerman as she unpacks the challenges of dealing with narcissists during the holidays while offering strategies to help you stay grounded and in control. How do you handle the unsolicited comments, the manipulative behaviors, or even the intentional chaos they bring to gatherings? Dr. Z encourages listeners to prepare for these moments rather than hoping for change, using boundaries and neutral responses as tools to maintain your own sense of peace.
 
Dr. Z also touches on the difficulties surrounding co-parenting during the holidays, as well as the emotional strings tied to gift-giving. She provides actionable advice to defuse conflict while protecting your mental well-being. Dr. Z explains how seemingly small and neutral actions are most effective in shifting power dynamics, such as a simple “thank you” or having a pre-planned exit strategy.
 
This episode is a guide to navigating the holidays with clarity and confidence. Dr. Z reminds listeners that while you can’t control others, you can control how you respond—and that alone can make all the difference.
 
Quotes
“Narcissists routinely love to ruin meaningful moments.” (04:49 | Dr. Z)
“You’re not changing their behavior. That’s not what this is about. This is about you gaining control over the situation.” (10:50 | Dr. Z)
“It is necessary for you to set boundaries. It is necessary for you to stay neutral. It is necessary for you to sit with the discomfort and regulate your nervous system. This is essential because we know that birthdays, holidays, major events, promotions, and graduations are the times when narcissists love to perform. Do not give them the platform.” (30:06 | Dr. Z)
“A boundary only doesn’t work if you don’t keep setting it... The purpose of boundaries is for you to walk away feeling empowered and more in control, leaving them standing there with the accountability of the conversation on them. What they choose to do with that accountability is up to them—they’re not going to take it, but at least it’s not yours to carry.” (30:54 | Dr. Z)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
Dr. Z's Holiday Help Handbook: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/store/p/dr-zs-holiday-help-workshop-l3ss7
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 31: Narcissism, Divorce, and Motherhood with Nicki Marie

“It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be the worst feeling you’ve ever had, but you’ve got to work through it.” The hard truth that, according to Nicki Marie, every single mom navigating divorce needs to hear. In this episode, she joins Dr. Jaime Zuckerman to open up about the emotional rollercoaster of separation, co-parenting and motherhood, offering a glimpse into the challenges and triumphs of her journey.
 
An “accidental influencer” and mom advocate, Nicki shares how rediscovering her authentic self became her anchor through the chaos of motherhood and divorce. Together, she and Dr. Z discuss how societal expectations and toxic relationships can reshape self-esteem and identity, which leave women questioning their worth. What does it take to rebuild your worth after years of feeling unseen? How do you trust again when past relationships have left you feeling guarded?
 
This episode is an honest and hopeful conversation for anyone grappling with the complexities of single motherhood and the scars left by difficult relationships. Nicki’s reflections remind us that healing can be messy yet worthwhile, and celebrating small victories along the way is a step toward reclaiming your strength.
 
Quotes
“I see people going through horrific divorces and family court, and one thing I always tell them is to document those breakdown moments—often, they happen in the car. Documenting these moments creates anchor points to look back on and see how far they’ve come. We’re often the worst reporters of our own behavior. We forget how low we were, how hard we worked to get through something, and how successful we’ve been at overcoming challenges. Capturing those moments can ground you and remind you of your progress. It doesn’t mean you won’t have bad days—let’s be honest, bad days happen. But acknowledging those past struggles and recognizing that you’re further along than you were—that’s all you need to know.” (07:15 | Dr. Z)
“This is a message I need everyone to hear: It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be the worst feeling you’ve ever had, but you’ve got to work through it.” (08:43 | Nicki Marie)
“You know what’s funny? If you Google me, guess what the first thing that comes up that people are searching the most… ‘Nicki Marie, reason for divorce.’ ‘Nicki Marie, ex-husband.’ People are obsessed with wanting to know the deal. And I will never share it because I have children and I want their world to be as offline as possible. That’s for me to work through. That’s for us to work through. So, I want to say that as a reminder to women who think they have to tell their full life story online: It’s there forever. Do the work with Dr. Z behind the scenes.” (56:04 | Nicki Marie)
 
Links
Connect with Nicki Marie:@nickimarieinc
@unpluggedwithnicki
https://linktr.ee/Nickimariebrands?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaaa356ZtcSAo7EmbJGEzJ1n3rO0rvekX8Eahzc73-utvKp900gboHSs8o_aem_KzH1HX-YVvcQr2sedajLQg
 
Connect with Dr. Z:
BLACK FRIDAY SALE ON NOW!!! USE CODE BF20 FOR 20% OFF ALL WORKSHOPS, COACHING PACKAGES, AND HOODIES AT WWW.DRJAIMEZUCKERMAN.COM
Download my HOLIDAY HELP HANDBOOK for tips on managing holiday stress!
https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/store/p/dr-zs-holiday-help-workshop-l3ss7
 
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https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 30: Detecting Lies Using Facial Expressions

Your face reveals the truth before your words do—Annie Särnblad unpacks how microexpressions expose deception and hidden emotions. Joining Dr. Z, she discusses the relationship between our facial expressions and emotional states, and offers insights that could change how you perceive everyday interactions. 
 
What are microexpressions, and why do they matter? Annie explains that they are involuntary movements that reveal genuine emotions, often before we’re even aware of them. These universal signals can bridge gaps in understanding, but they also uncover uncomfortable truths, especially when dealing with deception or narcissistic personality disorder. 
 
Narcissists often mask their true feelings, yet their microexpressions can betray them. What does it mean when someone’s face shows arousal or excitement at another’s pain? Annie and Dr. Z explore how this subtle behavior reveals deeper emotional truths. 
 
By learning to recognize these cues, you can better navigate challenging relationships and detect dishonesty more effectively. This episode invites you to see the hidden stories written on the faces you encounter.
 
Quotes
“With a grown-up, you may be asking someone in front of you, ‘How are you feeling today?’ And they go, ‘Great.’ And they pucker their chin. Well, they’re not really feeling great. That’s their body leaking. The microexpression is a leakage of emotion.” (07:04 | Annie Särnblad)
“When I see somebody actually showing arousal, joy, or getting a thrill, getting off on someone else’s suffering, that to me is a red flag that there may be some psychopathy.” (41:43 | Annie Särnblad)
“That intuition that we get, that feeling in our gut, like, ‘I don’t like that person. I don’t know what it is. I can’t figure it out. They just creep me out.’ What we’re picking up on are microexpressions. Yes, and probably other things too, like smell, body language, tone of voice… I’m looking for the disconnect, where the facial expressions and the words aren’t matching. If that’s a consistent thing, this isn’t good. This is a big red flag to stay away. And you’re going to combine that with other pieces that just don’t match.” (48:48 | Dr. Z & Annie Särnblad)
 
Links
Connect with Annie Särnblad:
https://anniesarnblad.com
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/annie.sarnblad/
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@anniesarnblad
https://anniesarnblad.com/book/
Annie has a new online course, the Reading Humans Masterclass. More information is here: https://anniesarnblad.com/courses/reading-humans-masterclass/
 
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 29: The Narcissist’s Next “Love”

What manipulative tactics are used to maintain control and power over former partners once the relationship is over? In this episode, Dr. Z unpacks the emotional fallout of a breakup with a narcissist and tackles the fears that arise when they move on to someone new. Why does it feel like their new partner is getting the idealized version of them you tried so hard to keep? And what does this reveal about their behavior patterns?
 
Dr. Z explains the dynamics at play—from character assassination to love bombing— and how these behavior patterns are part of a cycle, not a transformation. She also covers practical strategies, like going no-contact and setting boundaries, to protect yourself from the emotional chaos narcissists create.
 
Is it worth you warning the narcissist’s new partner? Dr. Z shares why this often backfires and why the best way to reclaim your peace is by focusing on your own happiness and living your best life. This episode is a reminder that healing starts with understanding the function behind a narcissist’s actions and choosing to prioritize your well-being.
 
Quotes
“One of the things I find with several of my patients is that there’s this fear, as irrational as they may know it is, that this new person is going to get this idealized version of your ex. Meaning, they’re going to get the ex that you spent the entire relationship trying to get back. That was the person who was love bombing you from the beginning of the relationship. That’s really what you were chasing the entire relationship: to get that back—what could you do to get that back? Sometimes it would be dangled in front of you, only to be taken away. You never knew when it was going to show up because there was no rhyme or reason, and that’s one of the things that kept you so locked into this toxic dynamic.” (01:56 | Dr. Z)
“The narcissist can’t afford to have alone time. Why? Because a narcissist basically does not exist unless they have people in their orbit giving them supply. That’s their lifeline. Without that, they don’t exist. So, if they break up with you, or you break up with them, they’re never going to be alone. This is one reason for the high likelihood of infidelity—they need backup. They need someone in the wings should you leave, or they leave you. More likely than not, the narcissist had other people. And I’m talking about both men and women here, as women can be narcissists too. So, in most cases, there will be other people.” (06:10 | Dr. Z)
“Somebody who is a narcissist is a narcissist always in every domain, in every aspect of their world.” (08:51 | Dr. Z)
“The best form of response to a narcissist is to live your absolute best life.” (31:31 | Dr. Z)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 28: Portraying Coercive Control in Movies: Purgatory, a Film by Jack Stockley

“The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we tried to set up immediately,” says award-winning director Jack Stockley. He opens up about his true purpose behind his short film “Purgatory,” - to reveal the quiet devastation of coercive control in abusive relationships. By portraying the abuser as charming and well-composed, Jack exposes a disturbing duality that keeps the abused partner isolated and questioning their own reality. His film’s nuanced storytelling challenges viewers to see beyond appearances and recognize the silent suffering hidden beneath the surface.
 
In this episode, Jack joins Dr. Jaime Zuckerman to discuss the behavioral nuances of his film and the often subtle patterns of narcissistic abuse. How do you depict domestic violence without showing physical violence? And what makes coercive control so difficult to recognize, even when it’s happening right in front of us? Jack shares how “Purgatory” uses subtle details, such as visual cues and carefully crafted dialogue, to immerse viewers in the isolating, and often invisible, world of psychological abuse. This episode encourages us to look deeper into the patterns of narcissistic abuse, so that we can recognize red flags sooner. “Purgatory” is not only a compelling film but an essential conversation starter on the realities of narcissistic abuse.
 
Quotes
“So you start the film questioning, ‘What’s her problem?’ Right from the beginning, it mirrors how many abusive relationships seem from the outside. You think, ‘Well, she’s a bit messy,’ or ‘He’s holding it all together.’ The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we try to set up immediately.” (08:44 | Jack Stockley) 
“When a woman leaves a narcissistic, abusive, grossly controlling relationship like that, the time she’s most at risk for harm to herself and her children is when she leaves—or if they find out that she’s going to leave, or right after she leaves. That’s the highest time for violence. So it isn’t simply a matter of just leaving; it’s about leaving safely.” (16:00 | Dr. Z)
“As a storyteller, as a filmmaker, to me, those subtle details and nuances that convey coercive control and emotional abuse are the most important. It’s the lifeblood of the film because you have to make it.” (29:33 | Jack Stockley) 
“People don’t talk about the fact that rape can exist in a marriage. It can exist in any relationship. It’s not something that happens only between strangers in the park. It’s not a cliché, but people don’t talk about it. People don’t think that it’s a real thing.” (35:19 | Jack Stockley) 
 
Links
Connect with Jack Stockley:Follow Jack Stockley on Instagram: @thereal_jps
Follow Blue Muse Productions on Instagram: @bluemuseproductions
Visit Blue Muse Productions YouTube channel to watch Purgatory: https://www.youtube.com/@BlueMuseProductions
Jack's newest short film - Flying - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jezw_c9UwQs
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 27: The Liability of a Narcissistic Ex

“The liability is not yours to own; it’s the narcissist’s. Let it smother them, not you.”
 
Dr. Jaime Zuckerman takes a closer look at what life looks like when a narcissistic ex still finds ways to create chaos, even after the relationship has ended. How does one protect their peace and their children’s well-being when post-separation abuse seems designed to undermine it? From stirring up conflict with their children’s teachers and coaches to resurfacing hidden debts, the narcissistic ex can remain a powerful disruptor. Dr. Z shares practical insights for those navigating these situations, including how to set boundaries, how to communicate openly with children, and how to address character smear campaigns without giving the narcissist the attention they crave. 
 
This episode is both empowering and validating, reminding listeners that while they may not be able control the narcissist’s behavior, they can control their own responses. Dr. Z’s guidance offers a path to reclaiming stability, peace, and resilience amidst ongoing challenges with a narcissistic ex.
 
Quotes
“The narcissist will deliberately sever your ties with people because it further isolates you. It causes increased damage to your relationships. But most importantly, it’s one of the only ways the narcissist still has control over you.” (05:11 | Dr. Z)
“With a narcissist, you want to give them nothing. You don’t want to give them that stage because just like the family courts, a kids little league is a stage for the narcissist to perform. Period. End of story. And the best way you handle that is by giving them nothing. The more attention you give them, the louder it gets, the more engaged in their acts the narcissist becomes.” (14:46 | Dr. Z)
“Even though it’s embarrassing as hell, and even though you’re so angry, you’re keeping the liability on the narcissist, and that’s where it needs to be. The liability is not yours to own; it’s theirs. Let it smother them, not you.” (33:32 | Dr. Z)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
 
Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel
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Episode 26: A Look Into Narcissistic and Antisocial Personalities with Dr. Lina Haji

“People are so quick to label somebody antisocial or narcissistic. Just because you disagree with someone, or they lied to you, or they treated you really poorly, or they were manipulative, doesn’t mean they have narcissistic personality disorder. But they can certainly have traits,” says Dr. Lina Haji, a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist and licensed mental health counselor.
 
Dr. Haji joins Dr. Z in this episode to talk about the nuances of personality disorders, particularly the differences between narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. How can one tell the difference between a narcissist and someone who is antisocial? And why does it matter? They explore the overlap—like lack of empathy and accountability—while also making it clear that while not all narcissists engage in criminal behavior, even though their actions can still be deeply harmful.
 
This episode also touches on one of the most frustrating issues for both professionals and clients: misdiagnosis. Dr. Haji explains why narcissistic personality disorder is so often mistaken for bipolar disorder, and how that mix-up can lead to the wrong treatment. Are mood swings the same as bipolar disorder? Dr. Haji points out that no, they’re not, and that recognizing the differences is key to addressing unhealthy patterns of behavior. 
 
Listeners will gain a clearer understanding of these complex personality disorders. More  importantly, they’ll feel empowered to recognize toxic behavior, regardless of formal diagnosis. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to make sense of the personality dynamics in their relationships and take control of their own emotional well-being.
 
Quotes
“‘Antisocial’ really refers to somebody who goes against the grain, who goes against social norms. And to put it even more clearly, basically someone who has criminal tendencies, if you will.” (05:42 | Dr. Lina Haji)
“For somebody to meet criteria for antisocial personality disorder, they do have to meet criteria for conduct disorder, which is essentially antisocial personality disorder in kids and adolescents.” (11:52 | Dr. Lina Haji)
“People are so quick to label somebody antisocial or narcissistic… Just because you disagree with someone, or they lied to you, or they treated you really poorly, or they were manipulative, doesn’t mean they have narcissistic personality disorder. But they can certainly have traits.” (13:00 | Dr. Lina Haji)
“Narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder, even psychopathy, is on a continuum. So somebody can be the world’s biggest a-hole and still not meet criteria for any of those personality disorders.” (13:12 | Dr. Lina Haji) 
“People with psychopathy, people with narcissistic personality disorder, people with antisocial personality disorder, if you look at their behaviors, they’re typically very self-serving, which tells me they know exactly what they’re doing because it’s a means to an end… I believe people with those personality disorders know exactly what they’re doing and just don’t care.” (28:06 | Dr. Lina Haji)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Lina Haji:www.risepsychological.com
https://www.instagram.com/rise_psychological_services/
Watch World’s Most Evil Prisoners: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/0GIXJX2M9XISMHB7LR9DI9STS9/ref=share_ios_season
 
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
 
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Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 25: Coercive Control and Cult Behavior with Vanessa Reiser

“The narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder,” says Vanessa Reiser, a licensed clinical social worker and author who specializes in narcissistic and cult abuse. She joins Dr. Z to talk about the striking similarities between narcissistic relationships and cult dynamics, focusing on how coercive control plays a role in both. 
 
Drawing from her own life experiences and professional background, Vanessa shares insights from her book “Narcissistic Abuse: A Therapist’s Guide to Identifying, Escaping, and Healing from Toxic and Manipulative People.” She breaks down how narcissists deploy tactics like gaslighting, isolating their victims, and enlisting enablers (often called “flying monkeys”) to keep control. But how does this connect to cult-like dynamics? Vanessa explains that these methods work by stripping away a person’s identity that will trap them in a mental prison that’s just as damaging as the control seen in actual cults.
 
This episode reminds listeners of the resilience required to break free from these toxic environments and the importance of building supportive relationships that will help individuals reclaim their identities. Vanessa’s insights offer valuable tools and strategies for overcoming these challenges that encourage listeners to seek help and validation as they move toward healing and self-empowerment.
 
Quotes
“A real cult is always led by somebody who’s trying to control, groom, and manipulate others to get supply and attention. We see this in intimate relationships and families. What they’re doing is using the classic tactics of narcissists to manipulate others to do what they want. They will isolate and get you to basically only view their opinions.” (05:01 | Vanessa Reiser)
“There’s this misconception that people who get sucked into ‘these cults’—whether it’s a cult of one, within a family system, or on a larger scale hiding behind a religious organization—have low self-esteem or no backbone. That’s not true… It’s important for people to understand that it has nothing to do with intelligence. The myth that you’re a weak person comes from the fact that once you’re in this cult—whether it’s a cult of one or something larger—the whole point is to gain control and power over you. And with that comes the loss of self-identity.” (07:48 | Dr. Z)
“A narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder.” (16:49 | Vanessa Reiser)
“A narcissist is allergic to your power and autonomy. They want to groom you and keep you ignorant, unaware, and not in the know.” (36:25 | Vanessa Reiser)
Links
Connect with Vanessa Reiser: 
https://www.facebook.com/vanessa.pugliese
https://www.instagram.com/vanessareiserlcsw/
https://x.com/vanessareisersw
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrYVROGoPdYqsEFkr2XYC9A
https://amzn.to/3XPf9ad
 
Connect with Dr. Z:
https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
 
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Episode 24: How Do YOU Feel? Bonus Episode with Author, Dr. Jessi Gold

“I really want to change the culture and the way we treat and value ourselves in the equation. I truly believe our stories have the power to change culture,” says Dr. Jessi Gold, reflecting on her book, “How Do You Feel? One Doctor’s Search for Humanity in Medicine.” In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to talk about the mental health struggles facing healthcare professionals, especially the high rates of burnout and the stigma attached to seeking help.
 
Dr. Gold sheds light on how medicine’s culture often equates overwork with competence, which is a mindset that has only worsened during the COVID-19 pandemic. What will happen when we start recognizing burnout for what it truly is? Dr. Gold stresses the importance of open conversations about mental health and the need to break the silence that keeps so many healthcare providers from getting the support they deserve.
 
Dr. Gold shares practical tips for managing mental health, like building strong support systems and practicing self-compassion. But more than that, Dr. Gold also stresses the need for a cultural shift—one where the well-being of healthcare providers is just as valued as the care they offer patients. What would medicine look like if we made that shift? Dr. Gold and Dr. Z’s hope is that by confronting these systemic challenges, real, lasting change will take root within the medical community.
 
Quotes
“This is such a needed book, and it applies to everyone, not just people in the medical field. I think people assume that if you’re in medicine, you don’t experience anxiety, depression, or other struggles. But what I always tell people is that just because you’re an oncologist doesn’t mean you can’t get cancer, and just because you’re a dentist doesn’t mean you can’t get cavities.” (02:40 | Dr. Z)
“I really want to change the culture and the way we treat and value ourselves in the equation. I truly believe our stories have the power to change culture... Stories can start conversations, and conversations can change systems. They just can. And there are a lot of systems at play here that do need changing.” (03:58 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 
“You want the people treating you to be healthy. You want them to not have foggy brains… And it’s not just about physicians, nurses, or mental health providers. It’s also about us as patients. We need people who are on the ball, right? So, it’s such a systemic issue; it’s not just the providers.” (08:17 | Dr. Z)
“Burnout is an independent risk factor for suicidal thoughts. It’s not just part of a constellation of symptoms, but rather a stepping stone—a stepping stone to depression, a stepping stone to suicidal thoughts, a stepping stone to substance use, and even things like car accidents. We tend to manage burnout like it’s just, ‘Oh, the workplace did that to you, and work was hard,’ but it’s so much more than that. It’s pervasive, and it really affects people’s lives.” (17:52 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 
“Meaning and purpose are protective against burnout. It sounds super woo-woo and strange, like, ‘Yeah, what’s meaning and what’s purpose?’ But really, it just means you chose to do this for a reason. It’s easy to lose that in the context of systems and things that are interfering with what you’re doing. How do you ground yourself in that? Sometimes, it’s just about reminding yourself in some way.” (23:13 | Dr. Jessi Gold) 
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Jessi Gold:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-Do-You-Feel/Jessi-Gold/9781982199777
Website: https://www.drjessigold.com/
https://www.instagram.com/drjessigold/
https://www.tiktok.com/@drjessigold?lang=en
https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
 
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