Next Up: Narcissism

Episode 43: A.I. and the Future of Therapy

Can AI ever replace the human connection at the heart of therapy, or are we losing something essential in the process?
 
I’m sitting down with my friend and colleague Dr. Sue Varma to talk about something that’s been on my mind. Artificial intelligence is making its way into mental health, offering quick answers and structured advice. But can it truly replace the depth of human interaction? Sue shares why the connection between a therapist and client isn’t just helpful. It’s the foundation of real change.
 
We also dig into some common misconceptions about therapy. Many people think it’s just talking instead of an active process of insight and growth. Sue introduces her “four M’s of mental health”—mindfulness, movement, meaningful engagement, and mastery. These simple habits help us stay grounded in an increasingly digital world.
 
As AI continues to reshape mental health care, how do we embrace new tools without losing what makes therapy work? Let’s get into it.
 
Episode Breakdown:
00:00 Introduction 
03:09 Dr. Sue Varma’s Background and Book
04:21 AI in Mental Health: Introduction
05:04 Positives of AI in Mental Health
08:18 Concerns About AI and Human Connection
09:11 Cultural Sensitivity in AI Responses
11:12 Importance of Patient History in Therapy
14:02 Physical and Behavioral Observations in Therapy
17:02 Challenges of AI in Diagnosing Personality Disorders
20:02 Therapeutic Relationship and Rapport
23:10 Misconceptions About Therapy
26:03 Future of AI in Psychiatry and Psychology
27:06 Staying Grounded and Optimistic Amidst AI Advances
28:53 Four M’s of Mental Health
31:09 Closing
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Sue Varma:
IG, FB, Twitter: @doctorsuevarma
https://www.instagram.com/doctorsuevarma/
Website: www.doctorsuevarma.com
Practical Optimism https://amzn.to/4hQdrxT
 
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Episode 42: A Deep Dive Into the Diddy Docuseries

Power and control shaped Diddy’s rise, but did they also define a long-standing pattern of abuse? Emmy-winning journalist Mara S. Campo joins Dr. Z to unpack the allegations, the fallout, and what it means when survivors finally feel safe enough to speak out.  
 
Mara, a contributor to the docuseries “Fall of Diddy,” shares what stood out most—the sheer weight of the stories, the patterns that surfaced long before fame, and the emotional toll of confronting uncomfortable truths. How do we reconcile admiration for a cultural icon with the reality of horrific accusations? What happens when the image we once celebrated no longer holds up?  
 
This episode isn’t just about Diddy. It’s about the power dynamics that keep survivors silent, the fear that stops them from coming forward, and the cultural shift toward believing survivors.
 
Quotes
“When I first read Cassie’s lawsuit, I will say this is the worst civil suit I have ever read.” (05:11 | Mara S. Campo) 
“My heart just breaks because I’m thinking about how young this woman was at the time. And now, I’m in my mid-40s, I’m a mom. And I just think about where I was at that place in my life when I was her age.” (08:44 | Mara S. Campo) 
“I think a lot of times when we see these powerful men getting in trouble, people come forward with these awful allegations. Sometimes you have to wonder, was it the power in the money that maybe corrupted them or did that empower them to be able to behave in this way?” (11:23 | Mara S. Campo)
“There's kind of a grieving that takes place if you’re someone who loved Bad Boy and everything that it stood for and everything that it brought to the world. And for me, personally, that has absolutely been the case because I grew up on Bad Boy.” (23:15 | Mara S. Campo) 
“It’s important not to discredit those who have the courage to come forward, to listen, to hear, and to really have a lot of compassion.” (27:21 | Mara S. Campo)
“The idea that there’s a statute of limitations on sexual assault to me is bananas. There should not be a statute of limitations on sexual assault because it takes victims years to process, to feel empowered enough to confront their abuser.” (31:10 | Mara S. Campo)
 
Links
The Fall of Diddy: https://www.max.com/shows/fall-of-diddy/a4d15a65-9071-43b9-abd8-ad905928743a
 
Connect with Mara S. Campo:
IG: @marascampo
https://www.instagram.com/marascampo/
TikTok: @marascampo
https://www.tiktok.com/@marascampo
YouTube: Mara S Campo
https://www.youtube.com/@MaraSCampo
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Episode 41: Toxic Productivity with Israa Nasir

Toxic productivity convinces you that your worth is tied to achievement. But when does ambition turn into exhaustion?
 
Dr. Z sits down with psychotherapist and author Israa Nasir to talk about why so many people feel trapped in the endless pursuit of doing more. Israa explains how productivity has seeped into every part of life—relationships, self-worth, even rest—turning what should be fulfilling into something depleting. She breaks down how to recognize the signs of toxic productivity, why the inner critic fuels it, and what it takes to step off the hamster wheel without guilt.
 
They also explore the deeper forces at play, from family dynamics to cultural expectations, and challenge the belief that success means pushing harder at all costs. Israa shares ways to shift your mindset, including a simple life audit to reclaim your time and energy. And maybe the most surprising takeaway? Letting yourself just be “good enough” might be the key to a healthier, happier life!
 
Quotes
“Productivity doesn’t just refer to work. In our hustle-oriented world, productivity is a measure of love, relationships, personal health, personal growth. All of these domains of our life have been now kind of wrapped with this productivity-oriented mindset.” (04:33 | Israa Nasir)
“If your intention is arbitrary, outside, external, that is a big red flag that what you’re pursuing is unhealthy.” (07:48 | Israa Nasir)
“The inner critic is often trying to protect us from pain. Its methods are to scare you so that you don’t do anything. So the inner critic will terrify you of trying new things by telling you that you’re a failure. Because what it’s trying to do is protect you from the pain of putting yourself out there.” (24:03 | Israa Nasir)
“We are so friggin’ dynamic. Like we are these multifaceted, complex-brained individuals on this earth... and we’re all just like, ‘Oh no, I have to be married before 30.’ What a distillation of a beautiful, beautiful life that we’ve been given.” (36:16 | Israa Nasir)
“Can you embrace being mediocre somewhere? Can you find a good enough point for everything? Just a good enough point for this email, a good enough point for the workout, a good enough point for the type of friendships you have. Find the good enough point, and then anything beyond that is extra.” (45:27 | Israa Nasir) 
 
Links
Connect with Israa Nasir:
www.israanasir.com
Toxic Productivity:https://amzn.to/3C8e9Yg
Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/well.guide/
 
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Episode 40: The Narcissist’s Family Tree

A narcissistic parent’s love is often conditional, forcing the child into roles like the golden child or scapegoat child, with often devastating emotional consequences. In this episode, Dr. Z explores how these roles are defined, how they shift over time, and the impact they have on self identity and relationship dynamics. 
 
The golden child is often the one who is praised and favored. Not out of love, but because they meet the narcissist’s needs and demands—until they don’t. The scapegoat child, meanwhile, shoulders the blame and accountability for those in the family, constantly striving for validation that never comes. These roles, as Dr. Z reveals, aren’t static; they can shift based on the parent’s changing demands, creating further confusion and harm.
 
Dr. Z sheds light on how to break free from these toxic dynamics. Through boundaries, therapy, and reclaiming your narrative, it’s possible to build a healthier, more independent sense of self. If you’re someone who’s navigating the complexities of a narcissistic parent-child relationship, this episode offers clarity, empathy, and tools to take the first step forward.
 
Quotes
“A narcissist does not love their children in the way that you and I think about loving our children. It is not unconditional. It is very much conditional.” (06:00 | Dr. Z)
“The golden child isn’t the child that’s loved the most. In fact, it has nothing to do with that. They’re not loved the most. They’re not really loved in the way that you and I think so.” (07:01 | Dr. Z)
“The scapegoat child is always responsible for managing the parent’s emotions. The scapegoat child is responsible for pretty much ‘anything that goes wrong.’” (19:13 | Dr. Z) 
“Once you realize that the narrative you have been sold is not yours to own, the narcissist loses an incredible amount of control and power over you that they will never get back. Because once you see it, you can’t unsee it.” (27:01 | Dr. Z)
“There is a difference between having a toxic relationship with your parent, because you don’t get along, you don’t see eye to eye, you butt heads, you have different values, different opinions, different morals even. There’s a difference with that. And what goes on with a narcissistic parent, they are different.” (33:21 | Dr. Z)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 39: No, Not Everyone is a Narcissist

When everyone’s a “narcissist,” what happens to the voices of those truly living through narcissistic abuse? Dr. Z unpacks the misuse of terms like “narcissist” and “narcissistic personality disorder” and how this trend erodes their meaning, which leaves survivors feeling silenced and misunderstood. She explains how narcissistic abuse often hides behind charm and subtle manipulation, making it harder to recognize, and even harder to explain. 
 
How do we spot the red flags? How do we support others without dismissing their pain? Dr. Z answers these questions with clarity, compassion, and insights that will help you better understand this misunderstood topic.
 
Quotes
“I need people to understand that when somebody has narcissistic personality disorder, the abuse that goes on in those relationships is on a level that you will not be able to understand unless you have gone through it yourself or unless you specialize in treating it.” (06:27 | Dr. Z)
“Narcissists are all abusive. Somebody with narcissistic personality disorder is always going to be abusive, whether it’s physical, sexual, financial, emotional, psychological, it doesn’t matter, but they will always be abusive. Not everybody who’s toxic is a narcissist.” (07:24 | Dr. Z)
“Please don’t minimize the stories of others because you don’t understand. You don’t need to understand to be supportive.” (16:21 | Dr. Z)
“Love bombing isn’t always a dozen roses every day or luxurious gifts. It’s basically whatever you value most, whatever you’re most passionate about—that is what the narcissist is going to attach onto in the beginning of the relationship.” (17:55 | Dr. Z) 
“You are not obligated to stay connected to somebody who not only is abusive, but who knows they’re abusive and doesn’t care that it’s hurting you as long as they get their needs met.” (32:21 | Dr. Z) 
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 38: Navigating the Narcissist's Playbook with Mark Vicente

Narcissists don’t just take what they want—they dismantle their targets in the process.
 
In this episode, Dr. Z welcomes filmmaker and author Mark Vicente to discuss the dark realities of narcissistic abuse and its psychological aftermath. Known for his work on HBO’s  “The Vow” and his upcoming documentary “Empathy Not Included: The Narcissist’s Playbook,” Mark sheds light on the manipulative behaviors of narcissists, the vulnerabilities they exploit, and the emotional fallout experienced by the survivors of their abuse. 
 
Mark reflects on his personal journey of healing after being entangled with NXIVM, offering profound insight into how narcissists mirror their victims' deepest desires and vulnerabilities as a means to control them.  He also unpacks the chilling reality of how some narcissists knowingly cause harm—and sometimes even revel in it.
 
Dr. Z and Mark touch on the broader implications of narcissism in society, from media manipulation to cultural denial of the harm narcissists can cause. Whether you’re seeking to understand narcissistic abuse or rebuild after trauma, this episode offers a compassionate and empowering perspective.
 
Quotes
"One of the things I learned as I began learning about what narcissism is and is not, I recognize that there was a certain place that people bumped up against. Most normal empathic people cannot imagine that these people exist." (04:47 | Mark Vicente)
“They were doing the work of masking the evil. And this is what we do. We don't want to live in that world because we want to live in this kind of fairy tale where good things happen to good people. To have it be true that there is a version of evil that's not like a Disney version, like a really, really dark version is so destabilizing to the psyche.” (09:56 | Mark Vicente)
“The thing about psychopaths that's so interesting is that they analyze us very unemotionally. and they learn about the way our data works, so to speak." (16:15 | Mark Vicente)
“People sometimes can't tell, they think it's excitement and it is, but sometimes that excitement is tinged with fear and desperation. And I always say when you're in that state with somebody, especially at the beginning, run. Because your cognitive thinking is going offline.” (20:26 | Mark Vicente)
“When you're mapping the mind of an insane person, it does damage to you. And when you're mapping a psychopath, it's very confusing. It starts to do a lot of bad things to you internally, psychologically.” (26:11 | Mark Vicente)
“I think feeling like a victim is a good phase. I think rage is so important. I mean, I can't tell you how many people, when we were waking up, I feel like there were certain psychologists who didn't understand how this worked, that would say things to us like, your anger's not sustainable. And I was like, it's sustainable as long as I need it.” (53:37 | Mark Vicente)
 
Links
Connect with Mark Vicente:
https://www.markvicente.com/
https://www.instagram.com/markvicente/
https://x.com/markvicente
https://www.empathynotincluded.com/
https://www.instagram.com/empathynotincluded/
Podcast: WTF is on my Mind?! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wtf-is-on-my-mind/id1646783869
YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@markvicente7
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 37: The Trap of New Year’s Resolutions

“New Year’s resolutions can sometimes send the message that where you’re currently at isn’t good enough. And that’s just not always the case! 
 
Dr. Z invites listeners to rethink the often pressure-filled tradition of New Year’s resolutions by asking a powerful question: What does growth need to be tied to the arbitrary date of January 1st and why does change need to be so extreme? She introduces a practical and compassionate approach with three simple strategies—maintain, modify, and make another date—designed to fit your life, values, and resources. Why overwhelm yourself with unrealistic goals when smaller, sustainable steps can create lasting progress? 
 
In this episode, Dr. Z breaks down how to set clear, actionable goals while avoiding the trap of perfectionism. She reminds us that real growth comes from meeting ourselves where we are. It’s a refreshing take on self-improvement, grounded in empathy and practicality.
 
Quotes
“Maintain, modify, make another date. These are three things I want you to remember about setting resolutions as you go into 2025.” (08:40 | Dr. Z)
“Make sure what you’re setting is achievable. Don’t try to tackle the world. We have too much on our shoulders. Pick something small. If you’re going to start something new, pick something with a small learning curve. Pick something that you’re already kind of familiar with.” (12:35 | Dr. Z)
“A mood can never be a goal. I repeat, a mood can never be a goal. Happiness can never be a goal.” (19:24 | Dr. Z) 
“New Year’s resolutions suggest that where you’re at is bad and wrong and needs to be fixed and changed. It doesn’t.” (26:42 | Dr. Z)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 36: When Leaving Isn't an Option with Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Leaving a narcissistic abusive relationship might seem like the obvious choice, but for many, it’s far from simple. Sometimes, people can’t ‘just leave.’ In this episode, Dr. Z sits down with author and mental health clinician, Dr. Kerry McAvoy, to explore why leaving isn’t always an option—and what to do when staying is your current reality.
 
As a survivor of narcissistic abuse herself, Dr. McAvoy explains the enmeshed dynamics and unique behavior patterns—such as intermittent reinforcement—that keep people  emotionally and psychologically tied to their abusers. She points out the importance of self-discovery, the development of internal boundaries, and reclaiming a sense of self as critical steps toward healing. The discussion also addresses the shame often felt by those who return to abusive partners and the practical barriers, such as financial dependence, that can prevent someone from leaving.
 
Whether you're navigating life within a narcissistic abusive relationship or looking for tools to rebuild after leaving, this episode offers insights and strategies to help you protect your peace and reclaim your identity.
 
Quotes
"Leaving is really the best way to re-regulate the traumatized nervous system and also for the person to have enough space for them to emotionally detach and start to heal." (03:22| Dr. Kerry McAvoy)
“I heard from Dr. Ramani, and it resonated powerfully with me. And it hit me. It was like a punch. I felt like a punch. She said, to say that somebody should leave is actually a privilege. And not everybody has the privilege of leaving.” (14:54 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)
"I think the first thing is to recognize that you've lost yourself and it has become submerged and enmeshed with this other person because the other person wants that." (19:05 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)
"You're going to have to navigate that yourself because it's a fine line. You're going to have to walk between compromising yourself, which is in self-betrayal versus protecting yourself but putting yourself at risk in the relationship for further abuse." (42:47 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)
“I really like this analogy, it’s that boundaries are a red flag to a bull and the narcissist is going to run at them.” (43:50 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)
 
Links
Connect with Dr. Kerry McAvoy:
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kerrymcavoyphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kerrymcavoyphd/
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLQyhjWUzWrBfoQlC5ZotQ
TIKTOK: https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdjuTrnV/
Group Coaching programs: Healing Strong for surviving healing and recovering from narcissistic abuse https://kerrymcavoyphd.com/healing-strong/
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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Episode 35: Narcissistic Mothers and Their Adult Daughters - REPLAY

In this episode, Dr. Z delves into the complex dynamics between narcissistic mothers and their adult daughters. She discusses how the behavior patterns of narcissistic mothers challenge societal norms of the mother/daughter relationship and have a profound impact on their daughters’ self-esteem and mental health.
 
Dr. Z also addresses the grieving process daughters of narcissistic mothers must go through once they come to accept the relationship will never be what they hoped for. She emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and offers practical strategies for managing these dynamics. 
 
Tune in to this episode of Next Up: Narcissism for Dr. Z’s compassionate and empowering insights, aimed at helping listeners break free from narcissistic abuse and move towards a healthier, happier life.
 
Quotes
“With narcissistic moms, they love their children in conditions. They love their children so long as the child is, at any age, doing what is expected of the narrative that has been given to them since birth. So, since birth, you get a narrative. You are to play that role your whole life. That role is meant to put you in a certain pattern that the narcissistic mom is able to control and manipulate. Because remember, with narcissists, the main goal of narcissistic behavior is to gain power and control, to take away your autonomy, to take away your sense of self.” (09:11 | Dr. Z) 
“Do narcissistic moms love their kids? They love them when they are performing as the narcissist wants them to perform. They love them so long as the child is doing what is expected of them.” (11:07 | Dr. Z) 
“Start to gain objectivity to your narcissistic mom’s behavior and the reality of who you are, because the reality of who you are is not connected to her. She’s just made you think that for so long. Your ability to make decisions independent of her exists. It always existed… Once you realize that you can exist separately from a narcissistic mom, your entire world opens up. You realize that you are capable of doing whatever you want to do, as long as you understand that you will never get the support that you want from your mom, unless it benefits her.” (37:40 | Dr. Z) 
 
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Episode 34: Defining Empathy within Narcissistic Abuse with Wendy Behary, LCSW

Understanding narcissism isn’t about excusing it. It’s about equipping yourself to break free and protect your mental health, especially during times of heightened emotions like the holidays.  
 
In this episode, Dr. Z is joined by Wendy Behary, expert in cognitive and schema therapy and author of “Disarming the Narcissist.” Together, they unpack the complexities involved in managing the dynamics with a narcissist. Wendy defines the role of empathy, not as sympathy or agreement, but as a tool for understanding narcissistic behavior, discerning your place within the dynamic, and strengthening your internal boundaries.
 
Wendy shares strategies for navigating interactions with narcissists, including maintaining neutral, confident communication and recognizing personal triggers. She also introduces the concept of schemas—deep-rooted emotional beliefs formed in childhood—and explains how identifying these patterns can help mitigate vulnerabilities within a narcissistic relationship.  
 
Join Wendy and Dr. Z as they share actionable strategies to help you protect your peace this holiday season, nurture your well-being, recognize your progress, and stay grounded in challenging moments.
 
Quotes
“The problem with empathy is the word itself—empathy. Too many people hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘sympathy.’ You hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘compassion.’ It’s neither. Empathy, in really simple language, is ‘understanding.’ So, it’s not about having empathy for the narcissist; it’s about having empathy about narcissism—and your particular brand of narcissist that you may be dealing with.” (12:28 | Wendy Behary)
“Empathy is not agreement. Empathy is not endorsement. Empathy is not support. Empathy can lead to compassion for someone in your life—not necessarily the narcissist, though it can for therapists. It certainly can when we develop a better understanding of what’s happening deep at the core for those narcissists who are actually willing to work on themselves. Some want to work on themselves, or at least have succumbed to the idea that they really need to. I think differentiating empathy—or just calling it a deep, skin-felt understanding of how something works and why it is the way it is—becomes part of your freedom ticket.” (14:44 | Wendy Behary)
“Empathy means to know, to understand, to get, to sense. Know yourself. Where am I the most at risk? When does that level of intensity strike me, where I go into some defensive position when I have nothing to defend, when I start apologizing?” (19:11 | Wendy Behary)
 
Links
Connect with Wendy Behary, LCSW:
http://www.schematherapytrainingonline.com/p/empathic-confrontation-wendy-behary0
https://disarmingthenarcissist.com/
https://www.facebook.com/wtbehary
linkedin.com/in/wendy-behary-269a8a16
Instagram: @donsanddivas https://www.instagram.com/donsanddivas/
Connect with Dr. Z:https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/
https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman
 
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